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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2012.05.24 19:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
In the interest of fairness shouldn't the punishment for both Hydra and Pandemic Legion be equal?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what's happening, but if teams are being banned because of A-B team scenario then the punishment should be the same for all.
If you're going to ban one team then ban one team from both alliances. If you're going to ban two teams then ban two teams from both alliances. Doing otherwise smacks of favoritism and doesn't leave CCP looking impartial or fair.
Just my 0.02 Isk |
claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
27
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Posted - 2012.05.24 19:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Duncan Tanner wrote:Perhaps you should have answered our multiple petitions and e-mails asking whether we were allowed to test together before we even started testing?
Will Goons and TEST also be disqualified because they also test together and are blue to each other?
Will the multiple other teams that test against each other on SiSi also be banned?
Please help me out here. Thanks.
Excellent question.
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claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2012.05.24 19:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
claire xxx wrote:In the interest of fairness shouldn't the punishment for both Hydra and Pandemic Legion be equal?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what's happening, but if teams are being banned because of A-B team scenario then the punishment should be the same for all.
If you're going to ban one team then ban one team from both alliances. If you're going to ban two teams then ban two teams from both alliances. Doing otherwise smacks of favoritism and doesn't leave CCP looking impartial or fair.
Just my 0.02 Isk
Case in point:
GÇ£We will be actively removing those alliances that try and add a GÇÿBGÇÖ or GÇÿCGÇÖ team. We want everyone to have a fair chance but stacking the deck in this manner will not be permitted. This removal will also include the main alliance if we detect anyone trying to field more than one team.GÇ¥ |
claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2012.05.24 19:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rojo Mojo wrote:claire xxx wrote:claire xxx wrote:In the interest of fairness shouldn't the punishment for both Hydra and Pandemic Legion be equal?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what's happening, but if teams are being banned because of A-B team scenario then the punishment should be the same for all.
If you're going to ban one team then ban one team from both alliances. If you're going to ban two teams then ban two teams from both alliances. Doing otherwise smacks of favoritism and doesn't leave CCP looking impartial or fair.
Just my 0.02 Isk Case in point: GÇ£We will be actively removing those alliances that try and add a GÇÿBGÇÖ or GÇÿCGÇÖ team. We want everyone to have a fair chance but stacking the deck in this manner will not be permitted. This removal will also include the main alliance if we detect anyone trying to field more than one team.GÇ¥ Removal of the main alliance would be unfair as clarification to this rule was submitted before signups began. Since there was no response we signed up anyways hoping to get in and be ruled eligible.
Rojo,
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the actual punishment. Just saying if CCP isn't going to follow through and ban PL (as the "main alliance") (or Goons and any of their A-B teams, and anyone else doing it) then they shouldn't be banning Hydra as the "main alliance."
CCP needs to be 100% impartial and enforce rules and punishment equally.
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claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
30
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Posted - 2012.05.24 19:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lazarus Telraven wrote:
Just to clarify, GSF has only entered a single team into the alliance tourney it is hard enough for us to get a single team into the tourney (see last year)
Fair enough, and apologies for using you as an example. Was just trying to make a point about fairness, and not imply you were actually breaking rules.
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claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
30
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Posted - 2012.05.24 19:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Raivi wrote:claire xxx wrote: Rojo,
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the actual punishment. Just saying if CCP isn't going to follow through and ban PL (as the "main alliance") (or Goons and any of their A-B teams, and anyone else doing it) then they shouldn't be banning Hydra as the "main alliance."
CCP needs to be 100% impartial and enforce rules and punishment equally.
I can't speak for what information Hydra gave CCP, but I can speak on the situation with the Waffles. Both YOUR VOTES DONT COUNT and PL have been completely aboveboard with CCP from the start about the nature of our relationship and how we are connected, even going so far as to tell CCP things they might not have otherwise known about us (even if that information might encourage them to disallow the entry) so that they wouldn't discover anything later that puts our statements into doubt. Everything we asserted about our teams could be backed up by logs on the test server. We were never attempting to represent our relationship as anything other than what it is, from start to finish.
From CCP Sreegs' initial post: "YOUR VOTES DONGÇÖT COUNT is an alliance consisting of a holding corporation and Sniggwaffe, which is widely known as the farm team for Sniggerdly. This is a fact which they openly admit. Unfortunately given that fact, and given the fact that the team captain and CEO bounce regularly between or have alts in Pandemic Legion, we cannot consider them anything other than a B team for Pandemic Legion and as such have to remove them from eligibility for competition."
Again, I'm not saying what CCP Sreegs wrote is actually true, or that I agree with the punishment, but if they're making that determination with Hydra/Outbreak and PL/Your Votes Don't Count then the punishment should be equal for both groups. To do otherwise absolutely goes against being impartial and fair. Either everyone is held to the same standard or no one.
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claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
32
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Posted - 2012.05.24 20:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:claire xxx wrote:
Again, I'm not saying what CCP Sreegs wrote is actually true, or that I agree with the punishment, but if they're making that determination with Hydra/Outbreak and PL/Your Votes Don't Count then the punishment should be equal for both groups. To do otherwise absolutely goes against being impartial and fair. Either everyone is held to the same standard or no one.
No, because the Hydra/Outbreak teams were actually colluding together in a single wormhole, PL/YOURVOTESDON"TCOUNT were NOT.
That's not the point. The point is that CCP made the determination that PL/Your Vote Doesn't Count were in fact an A/B team, just like Hydra/Outbreak, but both sets of teams received different punishments.
Ignoring the fact that the determination was made doesn't make it go away.
I'm not saying PL is in the wrong, I'm saying CCP isn't being impartial with their ruling. They (CCP) stated if that an A/B scenario came up then the main alliance would be banned, which is what they did with Hydra. If they're going to stand by the determination that PL/Your Vote Doesn't Count are an A/B team then the rules and punishment should be the same.
CCP shouldn't, in good conscience, half assed follow their own rules. |
claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
32
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Posted - 2012.05.24 20:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
deleted mistake |
claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2012.05.24 20:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sven Hammerstorm wrote:You dont seem to understand. The rules are not the same for everyone, regardless if you are told what you are doing is ok
LOL I understand that quite well. |
claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
33
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Posted - 2012.05.24 20:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:claire xxx wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:claire xxx wrote:
Again, I'm not saying what CCP Sreegs wrote is actually true, or that I agree with the punishment, but if they're making that determination with Hydra/Outbreak and PL/Your Votes Don't Count then the punishment should be equal for both groups. To do otherwise absolutely goes against being impartial and fair. Either everyone is held to the same standard or no one.
No, because the Hydra/Outbreak teams were actually colluding together in a single wormhole, PL/YOURVOTESDON"TCOUNT were NOT. That's not the point. The point is that CCP made the determination that PL/Your Vote Doesn't Count were in fact an A/B team, just like Hydra/Outbreak, but both sets of teams received different punishments. Ignoring the fact that the determination was made doesn't make it go away. I'm not saying PL is in the wrong, I'm saying CCP isn't being impartial with their ruling. They (CCP) stated if that an A/B scenario came up then the main alliance would be banned, which is what they did with Hydra. If they're going to stand by the determination that PL/Your Vote Doesn't Count are an A/B team then the rules and punishment should be the same. CCP shouldn't, in good conscience, half assed follow their own rules. So you honestly can't see the difference between us being very open an honest about every single dealing we've had, opening everything for them to see, and them coming back and going ok this looks too close we can't allow this other team since thats the one you've made obvious to us won't be competing if you CCP see a problem. And Hydra going "NO we're not 2 teams" then piling everybody into one corp and one wormhole and testing like one team? Those 2 instances in your mind both deserve the same punishment? I mean a simple yes or no will easily determine the validity of having a conversation with you, because they're not even close to the same thing.
Yes. I do see a difference.
But, again, that is not the point I'm making.
CCP has said that if they determine it's an A/B team scenario that they will ban the teams, including the main alliance.
CCP made the determination that PL/Your Votes Don't Count are, indeed, an A/B team (whether I agree is a moot point).
CCP then banned the team they decided was the "B" team, but not the main alliance. This goes against what they previously stated.
I'm saying I don't agree with CCP setting a standard and a punishment, making a determination that two entities have violated that standard, but not giving them equal punishment.
If CCP is going to make the determination that PL violated the same rule as Hydra (which is what CCP has stated in the original post here) and not apply the same punishment then they should unban Your Vote Doesn't Count.
Either apply the rules-determination-punishment equally, or not at all.
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claire xxx
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
33
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Posted - 2012.05.24 20:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:claire xxx wrote:
Either apply the rules-determination-punishment equally, or not at all.
I guess the term "Let the Punishment Fit the Crime" is a lost concept on you.
That's not the point.
The point is that CCP made a rule and said PL violated the rule then didn't apply the punishment that CCP stated they would.
CCP didn't state that there would be a lesser punishment for a lesser crime. CCP didn't even say there was a lesser crime.
It was 'if you're doing it then this is what will happen, end of story.'
Either apply the rule 100% or unban the alleged B team.
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